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I got good news and bad news. The good news is Tony Snow won't be spreading any more lies and misinformation as has been his career for the last decade. The bad news is it's not because he's found some integrity. It's because he's dead.
The NYT says, "Tony Snow, a conservative writer and commentator who cheerfully sparred with reporters in the White House briefing room during a stint as President Bush's press secretary, died Saturday of colon cancer. He was 53."
I remember when he first took the job he claimed that his credibility shouldn't be questioned because he took a pay cut to be White House Press Secretary.
Then when he left office, he cited as the reason for leaving, he wasn't making enough money to be able to afford the lifestyle to which he was accustomed.
''America has lost a devoted public servant and a man of character,'' President Bush said in a statement from Camp David, where he was spending the weekend. ''It was a joy to watch Tony at the podium each day. He brought wit, grace, and a great love of country to his work.''
Let be real here... this idea that "now someone is dead, let's show a little respect" is BS. "What difference does it make? Why malign the man now that he's dead? He doesn't care." True, but this is about whether or not the next five Tony Snows waiting in the wings to take his place think they can get away with the same thing and have an untarnished legacy. No. We cannot forgive the man who made a career out of whitewashing war crimes, invasions of human and constitutional rights, being a shill for corporate America, politicizing and polarizing the populace, and lying his ass off every chance he could get.
Is that in bad taste? Bad taste to me is pretending to respect someone whom you know did not make nary a single productive contribution to the world in which he lived. To his family, I'm sorry for your loss. But Tony Snow was part of the press machine that trumpeted war with Iraq and promoted the lies that Iraq was a threat to the United States and was involved in 9/11 and that has proven to be a lie. A lie that has cost hundreds of thousands of people their lives. Tony Snow showed a consistent disrespect for everyone and everything that didn't pander to the special interests of his employers.
Check out Tony Snow's first day on the job - he accuses Helen Thomas of working for Hezbollah:
Here are some high points of Tony Snow's career:
From his statement that evolutionary theory is a "hypothesis" to his defense of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, Media Matters for America has documented numerous false and misleading claims advanced by Snow as a Fox News commentator:
* Snow falsely asserted that former ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV said his wife, Valerie Plame, "wasn't covert for six years" before she was exposed as a CIA operative by syndicated columnist Robert Novak.
* Snow put forward numerous falsehoods to argue that "[e]volutionary theory, like ID [intelligent design], isn't verifiable or testable. It's pure hypothesis."
* Snow claimed that Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg is the "most liberal justice in American history," despite evidence to the contrary.
* Snow peddled the baseless Republican National Committee talking point that 2004 presidential candidate Sen. John Kerry (D-MA) had blamed U.S. troops for the explosives looted from the Al Qaqaa military installation following the invasion of Iraq. Snow said, "[T]he Kerry campaign is not criticizing the president here. They're criticizing our troops."
* Following President Bush's lead, Snow distorted Kerry's stated desire to reduce terrorism to a "horrible nuisance." Snow claimed Kerry had "called terrorists a nuisance."
* Snow backed Swift Boat Veterans for Truth's attacks on Kerry, falsely claiming, "[T]here has been no documentary contradiction of the Swift Boat stuff."
* Snow falsely defended Bush from probing questions regarding his National Guard service.
Media Matters for America documented a number of Snow's false or misleading claims when it was reported that he was on the shortlist. Following are numerous additional claims advanced by Snow in print and on the air.
Warrantless domestic surveillance
* Suggested Democrats objected to Bush's warrantless spying because they think the "government should not be able to listen to Al Qaeda": While speaking to Fox News political analyst Bob Beckel, Snow suggested that "Democratic opposition" to the warrantless domestic surveillance program arose from the belief that "the government should not be able to listen to Al Qaeda people talking to American citizens." Further, Snow claimed that the lack of additional domestic terrorist attacks was "a sign of [the program's] success." As Media Matters has noted, this false claim was first made by White House senior adviser Karl Rove during an address to the Republican National Committee at its winter meeting and was quickly spread as a talking point by numerous conservatives. But, contrary to Rove and Snow's assertion, no national Democratic figure -- member of the Democratic leadership in Congress, Democratic governor, or Democratic Party official -- has said that the United States should not be intercepting calls suspected to involve Al Qaeda. Moreover, Snow's claims about the program's effectiveness are not supported by the evidence.
* Claimed that Carter and Bush both authorized warrantless surveillance of U.S. citizens: Snow asserted that former President Jimmy Carter had "signed an executive order that authorized the attorney general to approve electronic surveillance to acquire foreign intelligence information." Snow went on to claim that this represented "exactly what the president is doing." But Snow ignored a crucial difference: Carter, unlike Bush, prohibited such surveillance of U.S. citizens. Indeed, Carter's order specifically required the attorney general to certify that the surveillance will not contain "the contents of any communication to which a United States person is a party." [Fox News' Weekend Live, 12/24/05]
* Claimed that the FISA probable cause standard kept the FBI from inspecting Moussaoui's laptop: Snow said that FBI agents in possession of Zacarias Moussaoui's laptop "decided not to go ahead and look at the contents because they ... had no definite proof that the guy was a terrorist" and, therefore, couldn't meet the probable cause standard necessary for a warrant under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA). But Snow ignored the bipartisan finding by the Senate Judiciary Committee that the investigators had possessed sufficient evidence but that FBI attorneys had applied a too-stringent standard for establishing probable, preventing the investigators from petitioning the court for authorization. [Fox News' Weekend Live, 12/24/05]
* Claimed that 2002 FISA review court opinion allowed for warrantless domestic surveillance: Snow stated that a 2002 opinion (In re: Sealed Case No. 02-001) by the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court of Review "says the president's inherent authority allows him" to eavesdrop on the international communications of U.S. residents. But the claim misrepresents the 2002 decision, in which the court said only that the president has inherent authority to conduct foreign intelligence surveillance without a warrant. The court did not rule on the question of whether a president has the constitutional authority to spy on people in the United States without a warrant, in apparent violation of FISA.
CIA leak investigation
* Falsely claimed that Wilson said Cheney had sent him to Niger: Snow claimed in his July 15, 2005, column that former ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV said he "had been dispatched by [Vice President] Dick Cheney to conduct a secret mission to Niger." In fact, Wilson never claimed that Cheney sent him on the trip. To the contrary, he wrote in his July 6, 2003, op-ed in The New York Times that the CIA requested he go on the mission "so they could provide a response" to questions raised by Cheney regarding allegations that Iraq had attempted to purchase uranium from the African country.
* Claimed that Intel Committee "discovered" that Plame recommended Wilson for the Niger mission: In his July 15, 2005, column, Snow further claimed that the Senate Intelligence Committee, in its 2004 "Report on the U.S. Intelligence Community's Prewar Intelligence Assessments on Iraq," "discovered that Wilson's wife, Valerie Plame, did indeed recommend him for the trip" to Niger. But the committee did not officially conclude that she had been responsible for Wilson's assignment. Media Matters previously noted that Snow had falsely asserted that Wilson said his wife "wasn't covert for six years" before she was exposed as a CIA operative by syndicated columnist Robert Novak.
* Falsely accused Clinton of rejecting bin Laden offer: Snow advanced the discredited claim that Sudan had offered to "hand over" Osama bin Laden to the United States in the 1990s, but that the Clinton administration responded, "Nah, don't want to do it." But this claim is derived from an August 11, 2002, article on right-wing news website NewsMax that distorted a speech Clinton made in 2002. Indeed, the bipartisan 9-11 Commission found (page 3) "no reliable evidence to support" the claim that Sudan offered bin Laden to the United States and determined that, based on Clinton's testimony, in "wrongly recounting a number of press stories he had read," Clinton had "misspoken" in his 2002 speech. [Fox News' Weekend Live, 2/25/06]
* Claimed botched CIA attack on Ayman Al-Zawahiri "was a success": Snow claimed the January 13 CIA drone attack in western Pakistan targeting top Al Qaeda official al-Zawahiri "was a success." Further, Snow and guest Richard Miniter both claimed the attack "knocked off four to five key Al Qaeda" figures. In fact, the strike reportedly killed at least 18 civilians, sparking widespread Pakistani condemnation and protests. Initially, U.S. officials claimed that, at minimum, some high level Al Qaeda officials were among those killed in the attacks, but this claim was never officially confirmed. A January 20 Financial Times report (subscription required) noted: "Pakistani intelligence official confirmed the identities [of alleged Al Qaeda officals] were made on the basis of intelligence information and not 'facts gathered through DNA tests or any other means.' " [Fox News' Weekend Live, 1/21/06]
* Deemed Gitmo "the most humane prisoner-of-war facility in history": In a June 15, 2005, column, Snow wrote that the Pentagon's military detention facility at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, "may be the most humane prisoner-of-war facility in history."
* Called immigrants rights protestors "idiots": In response to Republican strategist Linda Chavez's claim that the flying of Mexican flags by Mexican-Americans at a 1994 protest led to the passage of California's controversial Proposition 187, Snow said, "So, to quote the famous movie Napoleon Dynamite --'idiots.' " [Fox News' Weekend Live, 4/1/06]
From the December 24, 2005, edition of Fox News' Weekend Live:
SNOW: Shortly after its [FISA's] passage, your then-president, Jimmy Carter, signed an executive order that authorized the attorney general to approve electronic surveillance to acquire foreign intelligence information without a court order and then, subject to having the attorney general sign off. That's exactly what this president is doing, corrrect?
CHAVEZ: The president has the inherent authority under the Constitution. There have been a series of Supreme Court rulings. There's been a most recent ruling by 2002 of the FISA appeals court.
SNOW: It was the FISA court -- something called In re: Sealed Case 2002 [sic], where it says the president's inherent authority allows him to do this.
SNOW: As a matter of fact, when they seized the laptop of Zacarias Moussaoui, FBI agents decided not to go ahead and look at the contents because they were afraid they couldn't establish probable cause because they had no definite proof that the guy was a terrorist.
From the January 21 edition of Weekend Live:
SNOW: What seems also odd about this is that the tape was released just about a day after it became perfectly obvious that the CIA strike -- the Predator strike in western Pakistan -- was a success.
MINITER: A great success.
SNOW: They not only -- they not only hit a place where Zawahiri had met earlier with [Abu Faraj] al-Libbi -- who has since fallen into American clutches -- but also, it knocked off four to five key Al Qaeda guys.
MINITER: Right, including the head of the Kunar Province operations, which is the main battleground in Afghanistan against U.S. forces at the moment. And their top bomb maker and poison gas maker. You know, it's a great hit from the "war on terror" perspective. Also, they werevery careful to wait until the sun had set, because, by that time, the meal would have been put down, and men and women eat separately in that part of Pakistan, so the Predator waited, hoping to avoid civilian casualties -- a point that gets lost in all this coverage.
SNOW: Well, it does get lost in the coverage mainly because people don't -- you know, they don't understand the end of the eye -- they don't understand any of that stuff.
SNOW: Bob, let me ask you a different question. On the surveillance front: You've got a bin Laden tape -- there've been people saying the government should not be able to listen to Al Qaeda people talking to American citizens. What does that do politically to the Democratic opposition to the surveillance plan, if anything?
BECKEL: Well, first of all, I'll tell you, it obviously says more -- I don't -- if you've got a surveillance plan -- I haven't seen one single thing come out of this surveillance plan. I would assume, by now, that somebody in the administration --
SNOW: But, wait a minute, is that not a sign of success? If you have surveillance and you don't have crime, that would seem to be a sign of success.
From the February 25 edition of Weekend Live:
SNOW: You know also that some of those people who were lunching with bin Laden offered to hand him over -- to serve as the go-between between the government of Sudan and the U.S. -- during the Clinton years. And the Clinton administration said, "Nah, don't want to do it." So, it's an interesting tale.
From the April 1 edition of Weekend Live:
SNOW: Give me your response to sort of pro-immigrant groups that are doing rallies like this and waving Mexican and other flags -- are they doing more harm than good to their cause?
CHAVEZ: They're doing a lot of harm. And, in fact, back in 1994, when California considered an anti-immigrant provision -- Proposition 187 -- that was -- that initiative was actually going down in the polls. It was ahead a week before the election by only one point, then 70,000 Mexican-Americans took to the streets flying Mexican flags and -- guess what? -- it won by 59 percent. So, these folks would do a whole lot better if they would only fly the Red, White, and Blue.
SNOW: So, to quote the famous movie Napoleon Dynamite --"idiots."
Call to 'remove' insults & my testimony for positive analysts Posted by P. Shahir on 2008-07-12 22:58:57
HONORING PRESS SECRETARY Mr TONY SNOW FOR HIS SERVICES, AND OFFERING DEEPEST CONDOLEANCES TO THE WHITE HOUSE AS WELL AS HIS FAMILY AND FRIENDS AT THEIR SUDDEN AND PAINFUL LOSS.
A branch, fruit and seed has been plucked from a tree - but the positive spirit will endure through eterneties, and all worlds, for all have to pass this test and challenge of life .....
To editorial workers at BSalert ( wherever they may be today,): I request a quick rectification - at the very least, or swift removal the title of the above article with editorial notes.
I condemn this tone of attack and lack of respect in strongest possible terms! This needs some clear cut editorial ( or removals) to 'rectify' !
Where is the positive critical 'humor' in this ???? Each issue needs due investigation, and misguided or misinformed anger causes needless upset to readers ( and the writer himself, who may realize, after the 'mental shots' were fired
The title of this article is extremely cruel and inappropriate. I advise you to consult with the moderator or responsible of the website BSalert ( btw also with IP Address: 184.108.40.206 )..... and advise that that above meditate deeply - as he may have been upset or mislead by other claims or iinense propagandas - but we must allow choirs to be done on behalf of cruel unspiritual terrorist hate crimes overseas ( and we must not allow partisan extremism divide people further into confusing issues ) .
Freedom of speech is not 'freedom to upset or harm' - nor is it 'freedom to incite hatred or harm ,.
We must all respect people in their grief and great loss !
Any Christian would know that Jesus cried out from Golgata, at His last moments ' Lord ! forgive them for they do not know what they do ' - and was a hint to Psalms Ch 22 .
Psalms 23 is my prayer for Tony Snow .
The world is cruel, - and we need not make it evermore cruel.
We can never be judges on the outcome or extent of reward for others - but we can be sure that Tony Snow was serving the American Nation to the best of his ability.
His conscience was assuredly white as Snow - for he did his duty as called for. As worked very hard and gained experience through the years, he gained in humor and was recognized as carismatic spokesman for the White House.
I pray that the Almighty accept him even amongst those heavenly persons who served even at times when rest was needed, and did his calling and duty - and now he can rest where nobody can harm him.
My deepest respect and condoleance goes to his closest family and dear friends, and all true friends who appreciate the good in others.
Here are few comments, ( kindly requesting urgent security ramifications to be taken care of !! )
Skimming through a just a SMALL FRACTION of the above article I noticed that Mr Pile mentioned something about the Clinton administration as sited as 'not bothering ' to persue Osama bin Laden. ( We are already there where the core issue has been left behind, and mere mudslinging on who-said-what undermines the very serious realities ! Party conflict is wasteful - and people end up doing choirs for sly forces of evil intent - this made accessible all around the world .....)
Please let me put the record straight. Historically, I clearly remember the time when the Sudanese government had in fact allowed terror training camps activities to take place there. I do not believe anyone thought that 'Sudan' had suddenly offered to help stop the terrorism brewing and fomenting. Behind-the-scenes warnings and offers to help had apparently taken place from certain sides.
I can state that :
1) I remember hearing over the media that there was a report from contacts that were willing to assist in 'stopping' of Osama bin Laden. It was not prioritized apparently - and you would have to ask President Clinton himself for his reactions, was he was informed on a vast variety of issues.
The seriousness of the matters may have been underestimated - while, in those years, I was also doing my best to help explain extremist mechanisms and interaction in Europe, escalating, and all the end blame put on 'Americans' etc
2) During those years, I tried to contact President Clinton at the White House.
I appreciate a senior security officer who was kind towards me. I explained that I had a human rights dissident background that was a heavy burden on me, and at the same time, I struggling to warn about the surge of terrorism, and even the danger that my mother's life could be in.
While I am testifying on this, my own life can be endangered - but I have the right to defend and encourage all good people ! ......
I cannot blame the very busy President Clinton for not remotely being able to recieve my urgent call ..... he had other business to tend to , but I deeply appreciate the kindness of his White House staff.
I reported to a US airmen unit stationed in Germany that the war was not 'up in the air', but ' here on the ground ' as ultranationalist hate groups were further inflaming dangerous jihadi tendencies, and that would be taken further advantage of by terrorist groups - who would want to justify terror and recruit disenfranchized and hopeless 'lost souls' in Europe.
Later on, on January 1998, I noticed that Saddam was racheting and fomenting trying to gather his contacts from the region and around the world to help him in what he called ' the mother of all battles ' and his fight against USA and the West.
I told my local contacts that if I raised issues on Saddam, my mother could be vulnerable and killed in retaliation . A couple of locals said ' Oh! She is too far away ! they cannot hurt her -why worry so much ? '
The termendous danger was apparent, but I felt the responsibility to raise understanding - both by being frank to Saddam, and to help clarify issues - so I wrote an indictment fax letter on February 2nd 1998 addressed to Saddam through UN Headquarters fax and through the Embassies of the UN Security Council Permanent members, askign all to forward the message to Saddam.
I charged him for High Crimes and Genocide against original peoples of the Iraq region - and for his biochemical experimentation on Iranian prisoners ( amongst dissidents who were sent as 'mine sweepers' by Ayatollah Khomeini - and never wanted to shoot anyone - of they turned back, they would be shot by the clerical moral blackmail regime ! (
I told Saddam - leave and present yourself to the International Courts at the Hague before too late !
25 days later, my mother was run over for the second time and killed on February 27th 1998 !
I have struggled to forewarn about horrific dangers, and I had been threatened and intimidated even locally ! Saddam was good business, and as they say, ' money does not smell - wherever it may come from ' .......
A few months later, the 2 US Embassies in East Africa were bombed - amongst them, one of the local embassies my mother told me she went to as she had been harassed.
I do not know how this You Tube side line thread will be considered - for breach International breach of ethics - despite great US hospitality and transparency.
We must remember that there are people out there who have been killed, and in greatest danger !!
I can refer to the words of Jacob in the New Testament who stated that people should guard their tongues, as the tongue is as a smouldering fire, just as a single flame can devour an entire forest ..... You can read those beautiful passages.
I leave it up to the Website to find a way of moderating that is best appropriate - perhaps through an official correction and special note.
I go for POSITIVE dialogue - and we must all be aware and weary of chains of excuses ' I heard that from another website - and here-is-the-link - and all reasoning runs in vicious circles !!
I would not advise anyone to step in a smelly puddle - but errors are for the learning , as long as people take the step to go 'into their thinking boxes' and immediately suspend negativity - and we must show the greatest respect to all who serve, each and every with their own capacity and ability, and pay tribute to all authentical efforts and honesty in service.
May the Almighty and Saintly Souls everywhere accept our prayer and plea, that the stumbling and pain be transformed into relief and joy, the cruel hints and dirt puddles be transformed into sweet scenting flowers of kindness and forgiveness.
If the intent and zeal is burning truly to do good, and we all try, we shall ultimately succeed, sooner then too late ....
The Christian scriptures, according to letter to Jacob, state that if one has faith, one must needs do good - for faith without deeds is dead. ( litterally )
In the chaos the world is enveloped with, I could understand it if people get misled or provoke on a Saturday day of rest - but the Truth never sleeps - for the peoples truest devoted zeal for learning the truth and being fair, just and positive, is what all hope rests on.
A dawn will rise again, and certain people will discover their errors - while others will evend eny the warmth of the sun.
I for one, do not want to scoff at the stumblings of others, but am grateful whenever I could be inpsired positively or taught some.
Honoring Tony Snow, his family and friends, and all good people who may never have been recognized for their struggles in silence.
May Tony - along with the great Men and Women of ultimate sacrifice, find comfort and rest with the Almighty - and us who have the chance, let us honor others sufferings and sacrifice, by bringing joy through services and zeal for the truth, and to do the good we can, and while we can .....
Despite the chaos of cruelties, may good hearts be inspired to defend all good, and May the Almighty bless and protect !
From a non-political non partisan, & from a standpoint of jurisprudence and reason,
( please excuse any swift improvisation errors of spelling etc )
Thanks for taking the worst off - ALL have benefit of any doubt Posted by P. Shahir on 2008-07-13 06:34:16
Thanks so much for the big improvement !
We all are full of errors, and that is the challenge of life.
The title and another detail are within some reason. I often have to improve on myself - and what I called my 'quick notes' could always become better when they go into the 'review' before adding. Judging others is worst temtation - for 'he should have been asked before' !! - and there could be all the information available for the public statements. Afterall - we could all easily end up in a viscious circle of ' self information ' . Thanks for the effort ! Mob-o-cracies or Street parliaments are not best judgements - specially the domino effect of cyberspace. Easy for the street watcher to say - but what would WE do when extremists abuse Internet to send cryptic messages preparing to attack civil societies. We thought oceans and mountains protected from all - and now we realize that the Internet is an entirely different ballgame - and for every naïve step we take, enemies of humanity and fanatics can try to outmanoevre faster then any illusions we may try to write. Those who dare testify may endanger their lives unimaginably. Thanks to those who understand and are concerned about proper protection ! BTW BS makes good fertilizer, lets spread it to grow things with - using it with care and away from all good people, - and with water distribution it can bring good crops. The real reality is often almost incredible ( due to media unawareness )- conflicts make honest investigation difficult. We surely can strive to find common points and help resolve worse crisis. We owe it to them who risk their lives, serve & many who made the ultimate sacrifice. Improved investigation after the truth needs removing the preconceived - and 'the truth can set us free'.
Thanks to all true seekers - for it is not in te stumbling - but the true earnest that counts, and brings a smile to peoples' sufferings, and hope ( - for proper witness protection ), for better bridgebuilding, peace and progress for you & me, and all good people.
There is so much to do .....TY for those with a positive will, & a great weekend to all !
Posted by Pile on 2008-07-13 10:03:41
This isn't about negativity and hatred.
This is about whether or not a professional liar is to be remembered as something more than he was.
So Mr. Shahir, what is your story? You don't sound like an American citizen. Why are you so much of a fan of the current administration and their policies?
Editorial partly changed back to negative sarcasm & 'jubilation' Posted by P. Shahir on 2008-07-13 17:58:15
(- I have kept text copies of this URL through its changes. Do lets keep it in a good tone ! )
I have no party political affiliation - & BTW I do sound perfectly American - sometimes even Canadian and British depending on whom I speak with. I have great respect for all people. Many felt hurt over some who jubilated when they heard Senator Ted Kennedy was ill - and the public reacted. This is the same. Even if some may not agree with the Senator, still both Republicans and Democrats and others showed respect and kindness.
I feel it is possible to discuss things in a good tone, and with greatest respect. After all, Press Secretary Mr Tony Snow passed away FAR TOO YOUNG. He apparently worked far beyond his capacity.
It is cruel to blame him for all ills - and I feel that people should have an honest dialogue with their President. What should ANY President have done in face of repeated threats of terror attacks and a massive media hate campaign against the USA and friends ??
Sponsored hate-media flooding is like a hooting, cheering and jeering, and the public is overwhelmed and does no longer know what to believe.
Lets drop partisan extreme cheering, and keep 'our eyes on the ball' instead of harshly criticizing persons who all did their duty confronted with tasks that no President had ever faced before !! ( but the heinous US Embassy bombings in 1998 were an 'utter surprize'wake up call - and the same theme has continued smouldering to this very day ..... HOPEFULLY subsiding with improved global understanding )
It is crucial to take issues one by one, and ensure that people can be bothered, or even enjoy contributing with a dialogue.
With a deep interest in health and biochemistry, I was drawn to comment on your fine presentation of artificial coloring - but am totally new to BSalert and background, and having had eye problems, have been slow in exploring .....
My experiences and testimonies can come when I feel comfortable. There are historical aspects was essential here to underline that President Clinton was informed about the possibilities of stopping Osama bin Laden - and the offer to help hand not come from the Sudanese leadership either.
There is evidence of massive arms shipments to Sudan through harbors of US allies. Months before 9/11, the brave Police Intelligence of one such country stopped and 'arrested' the crew of one such ship ( at a European harbor ) - but some ultranationalist politians who had before defended Saddam, cried out that they did not want Police Intelligence to help with what they called 'doing choirs for the USA' and US sanctions. The shipment of arms was thus forced-released to its Sudanese destination .... while there were Al-Qaeda bases there - and now those, (and other) arms shipments are used against Darfurians )
We need to help people all around the world understand their shared civil responsibility when massacres take place and despots such as Saddam threaten to bribe the world, take Kuwait and others hostage, and ensue a world blackmail, trying to enforce hate policies and total control of the world economy. Can you imagine what the world would have been like with Saddam still in power, and demanding excess of $150 per barrel of oil ?? Perhaps it would have already hit the $500 per barrel, for I remember Saddam stated that he wanted to 'pay in Euros' and had amassed funds in Swiss banks for furthering his proxy war payments of various terror agents - as the ones uncovered in the Phillipines through Saddam's embassies. ( statement by White House Press Secretary Mr Ari Fleicher )..
Saddam had repeatedly stated that he ' had come to finish what Hitler had left incomplete ' . Many good people were horrified.
This is the Saddam the USA helped remove. Was that wrong ? What was lacking was global social consiousness and proper public information - and people are no better informed when mudslinging takes place against a President or a hardworking Press Secretary. It was the USA was attacked - and the USA had even asked for a fair trial for the genocidal Saddam ( - disappointed, as I was, that vast issues on Kurds, Junta Shah of Iran, etc were not properly heard in courts )
I even heard reports that Saddamm had taken rejuvinating blood products from human babies ( in contrast to embryos ) . Helpless prisoners as captured Iranians were made into guinea pigs for biochemical experimentation !!!!!
Still there are those brainwashed who brush off all, and call it an 'imperialist propaganda'.
The US has even succeeded in punishing Osama bin Laden, for he has apparently become a zombie - from years of drug abuse, as he was basically a drug 'lord ' and his terror was aimed at legitimizing his market too.
I was personally told by a Intell person with close contact with Taliban, uncovering terrorists ideology, quoting them for saying , ' Sell them drugs and then buy the arms we need to fight them '.
Drugs obscure the mind - and I was well informed that even Laurent Kabila who fought side by side with Che Guevara in Congo, perused drugs on child soldiers, so they became fighting zombies. 30,000 were reported killed in one report.
Most horrific gencides took place in the Rwanda Congo regions. The US bagan taking the stand in non-oil producing Balkans. When Saddam began blackmailing the world and planning on a proxy war, HE IN FACT USED THE SAME TERMINOLOGY AS FANATICS AS AL-QAEDA !!
When injustices take place, ALL the people of the world should join hands across ALL party politics and backgrounds, regardless race, creed or religion. ALL have a shared responsibility.
However, the tyrants feel the rod of US chastizement and now want to even buy off US enterprises, flood the strained society with toxic drugs, and even tried to buy off and blackmail journalists. I have no ties with any politics, but I profoundly respect those Presidents who have struggled all they can to defend the American nation. People have been too misinformed and naïve - and tyrannies with closed societies and their adepts have used the Internet to campaign against an hospitable and open society as the USA - taking advantage of free Internet hosting etc etc ......
This is not about a 'political issue' but that of a legal issue and an emergency as to how to deal with a chaos of disenfranchized poor people - who had expected the USA to have unlimited funds that can help out with everything imaginable - while oil producing countries have been somewhat exuberant during catastrophe or crisis in 'paying off' their present and future suppliers of cheap military hardware ..... It is not about 'supporting any administration' but defending justice, and that people everywhere MUS HELP AND CONTRIBUTE SOMEHOW TOWARDS THE COMMON GOOD OF THE WORLD AND FREEDOM FROM TYRANNY AND CRUELTY.
As I wrote above, I feel that the article above is in its entirety a cruel attack after the passing of a hardworking public servant.
The editorial intro is still too harsh and too 'jubilant' . Why were these questions not raised while Mr Tony Snow was there and available - even to journalists - and bloggers could have followed up ????? - Now, let us strive towards a better tone of public information, and also show respect to the US President across all party politics.
Do people remember that Hon President G.W. Bush had to undergo a 2 month Cipro treatment after exposure to Anthrax ?? Such a treatment is utterly exhausting for the system !!
Historically, no president has been put under SO MUCH strain !!! He is after all the President for all Americans regardless partyu politics! I always respect the President of the People. We must not be allowed to be mislead by foreign hate propaganda. ( OR self hating 'insiders')
If good people feel 'forced' to jump off a cliff or attack an administration, it does not alleviate the headache caused by hate movements and fanatics overseas. In this global village, we could put our heads together and recognize that some people have lost the theme ever since the horrific attack on the WTC in 1993. THAT is where we have to look into for answers - in THAT event, and in those PREVIOUS years of the 1980s.
The title of this thread has improved - thanks - and now I hope that the editorial comment also further improves as to the sarcasm of 'good news - bas news ' - and others dispectfully not merely called liars when they no longer can reply. One could call for an investigatory dialogue - and not merely call people liars posthumously !! When this done, I could have more peace of mind if I were to write comments or take part freely in discussions.
Honor is in our constant rectification - for that is life - honor is not in persisting in a divided debate. There are promising signs, and have respect for all who stumble in passionate misunderstanding - but there are those who feel they do 'honor killings' by blowing themselves up and innocent men women and children. Let us try and lead the way by pouring the fertilizers in the right places, and ALL good people will reap the fruits of joy .
Chins up ! - the US has still much to do - we all need unity and spirit of mutual respect - and only then, a positive investigative dialogue could thence ensue .....
Have a thoughtful sunday - best wishes to all,
& and may the Almighty protect and all good people help inspire !
( please excuse improvisation errors )
Link to the other side of the story on Press Secretary Tony Snow Posted by P. Shahir on 2008-07-13 20:36:34
I hope this can be useful :
( clip and paste on browser URL address field )
nutjob alert Posted by Pile on 2008-07-14 14:15:26
>I even heard reports that Saddamm had taken rejuvinating blood products from human babies
Great... another wacko conspiracy theory nutjob.
Don't you people have anything better to do? Like examine your head for RFID chips that were secretly implanted while you were sleeping by zombies hired by the CIA?
Critic was about 2 sides of coin - 1990s non-persuing of OBL etc Posted by P. Shahir on 2008-07-14 23:11:54
@ Pile - since you inquired ..... on Clinton's role as regards OBL in the 1990s, and unbelievable horrors under Saddam Hussein and other tyrants.
My main theme was that the original headline on this discussion thread was FAR too harsh and cynically cruel over other's personal tragedy, ( for anyone ) let alone for the many who loved Tony Snow for his carismatic personality !
After a period of peace to mourn, then there could be a dialogue on clearcut specific issues - one at a time. Here we suddenly had a 'PILE' of accusations post-humously !! - and I being non-political and not connected to any lobby whatsoever, have the right ( and duty ) to help clarify, where I can, on issues that I personally have experienced and know something about, or have had, at the very least, first hand accounts from people fleeing from those regions.
As I said, I skimmed over a TINY FRACTION of your list, and already stumbled over a single theme about 'who-said-what' and 'why-did-others-conclude-that' as regards to the Clinton administration not prioritizing the stopping of Osama bin Laden in the 1990s - alongside dealing with various interrelated extremist Jihadis that were known to be connected to the horrific 1993 attack on the WTC.
THAT is where I felt that I could clarify that there were those events related to shipments of arms to Sudan that were far from stopped by Europeans - ( prior to 9/11 ) while there were known terror training camps functioning in Sudan .... This was important to clarify.
I then went on to clarify that I had raised alarm long before 9/11 - and already in August 1997 had explained to US airmen unit based in Germany, explaining to them that while ultranationalist hate extemists were ( certain European countries ) capitializing on the fact that there were no proper distinction between peaceloving refugees at risk of being persecuted and killed, and those who found it convenient to come to Europe and falsely claim being 'a near extinct and endangered species'. As misunderstandings grew in the 1980s ultranationalists hate proponents capitalized on the confusion, and on mixing all issues up, and used it as an excuse to blanket judging anyone different - regardless the authenticity of the persons involved, good people were marginalized. I explained to those US airmen in 1987, that the war is not 'up there' but the harsh reality ''down here on earth' - as extremism and further polarization and misunderstandings have thrived - and there an unpleasant and horrific symbiosis and mutual benefit from mental isolationism between the extremist ideologies.
I dubbed the word ' parallel societies ' which was a term litterally soon 'swallowed raw' by many debators in Europe. Each believed in their fixed preconceptions and were worlds apart. ( both isolated individuals and groups)
Small countries were not accomodated to such problems they poorly understood, - and often reacted with chauvinism and blanket discrimination and those 'on the other side' with truly cruel mindsets developed a hateful ideology that profited from the ultranationalist hatred they met. The rift of understanding grew, and honest authentical people were sidelined andmarginalized due to blanket judgements that hit media headlines.
BOTH EXTREMIST ANTI-POLES: JIHADIST EXTREMISTS AS WELL AS ULTRANATIONALISTS blamed all problems and evils on US dominance and conspiracy. Persons on BOTH extremes claimed that the whole thing was a conspiracy by the USA - and both the extremist factions as Hezbollah AND the ultranationalists claimed that there was a 'Jewish conspiracy' to control the parliament, banks etc
Saddam enjoyed this atmosphere of hatred, and was even praised by ultranationalists in Europe. Saddam had stated that he wanted 'to complete the job Hitler had left incomplete ' .
It was in the late 1980s that I heard horror accounts from refugees. Some refugees from Iran had escaped through mountains on the Turkish border , and some through Afghanistan - some by crossing the Persian Gulf into UAE, and some through Iraq. It was from refugees from Iran that I heard many many horror accounts - ranging from biochemical attacks on civilians BOTH BY SADDAM AND THE IRANIAN REGIME ON IRANIAN KURDS - ALL THE WAY BACK IN AROUND 1986-1987 .
The account that refugees had heard that the doctors of BOTH Ayatollah Kohomeini AND Saddam Hussein had used experimental blood products to keep them in good condition, is a horrific issue and documented in medical litterature as regards to the rhesus flexibility of baby stem cells have also been documented more recently !! ( and the lack of anti-bodies ) This is as if from a horror, Dracula or Frankenstein movie ( or 'Coma') and an 'unbelievable conspiracy theory' for some! (( but today we realize that people ARE kidnapped for their body parts even in other regions ))
When I first heard refugees telling me this, I felt quite disbelieving and totally sceptical, until I learned about the superstitions and cruel and futile medical 'practices' among people, both under the Iranian regime as well as in Iraq. At first, this was something I thought that could happen in Iran, as the Ayatollahs had control over all funds and doctors were demanded things that would be against any Hippocrathic principles. Some doctors were executed because of their secrecy, and others were forced to becoming monsters - as happened under the post depression Nazism that exploited dissidents and enemies to fulfil their supply of guinea pigs.
When I first heard about the use of new born babies blood used in rejuvinating treatment, refugees referred to Ayatollah Khomeini.
I later heard similar accounts about Saddam Hussein. Some paid 'doctors' would commit any crime ' to cure age and cancer' in order to survive and feed their family. In the 1980s the use of stem cells and experimentation on rejuvination was litterally unknown or undiscussed in medical circles in the West, understandably due to high moral standards. However, the elite societies in both Iran and Iraq had access and demanded things that was reserved for the elite.
When I mentioned this issue at the spur of the moment, it was a simplistic example amongst MANY MANY OTHER horrors committed by both regimes as they BOTH sent dissidents to the front lines to be killed. Iran was well renouned for luring school children into trucks and shipping them to the war front with Iraq and given a 'key to heaven' around their necks. They were very often children of dissidents and undesired endangered minorities. I freeze with grief due to the horror accounts I heard first hand from refugees arriving from those regions.
This stereotype example was ONLY 'A TINY DISCRETE DETAIL' (epitomizing those regimes) in contrast to much more blatant and visible attacks on humanity, such as the use of Chemical warfare in BOTH Iran and Iraq already apparent towards 1987 ( BEFORE the Halabcha massacre !! ) Iranian refugees told of Iranian Islamic Revolition forces aircraft bombing Kurds, and possibly colluding their extermination indirectly together with Iraq. Saddam was a master of trickery,trying to scare Turkey and inciting desperate Kurds to cross the border - in order to get more support from Turkey for fulfilling Saddam's own scheme.
Police authorities know well what I have already reported in 1987, indicating possibilities of cross border use of biochemical agents possibly even into Europe ( - let alone speaking of the much later 'Gulf war syndrome ' - which was apparently not from vaccines according to recent British research, - but POSSIBLY mixture of chemical residues, pathogens, as well as traumatic stress )
What I found disgustingly racist, was the ingorance and similarity between both ultranationalists AND jihadist abusers of religion BOTH demonizing the USA and blaming everything on Americans, and 'zionist conspiracy'.
On Since BEFORE 9/11, I was on PalTalk struggling to war about problems and issues.
I had stated that Saddam wanted payment for oil in Euros and not Dollars, for he wanted the US economy to depreciate. While the USA had assisted in defending UN food supplies in Somalia, and helped in hotspots with no oil, I kept on raising the issue that the abuses of natural resources by both Iran and Iraq ( ancient Capital province of Persia ) , could lead to a world economical crisis. Oil could fuel uncontrolled spur of development and consumerism, and all of sudden, those despotic tyrannies would 'pull the noose' and demand exuberant and ludicrous prices, and secure themselves all the finance they wanted to pay for their arms race !!
While on PalTalk, some will remember me, as the oil prices passed the $30 and even approached and passed the $40 point. I stated that 'that is nothing !! Oil will continue to rise even above $50 - $70 - $80 and even over $100 , $200 - I stated that with the effect it would could have on the US economy, oil can rise even up to $500 - and the world economy can be threatened by recession !! - if people do not wake up.
It was then discussed that people would think of ulterior motives if US were to try to stop Saddam. As I had tried to explain around ½989 - 1990 , the threat to world economy and escalation of armament financing and prospect of world chaos and destruction were and still are UNIMAGINABLE.
Hate populism under Hitler needed a microphone and open squares so all could hear. The US were not aware of the Nazi agenda, and IBM supplied Germany with the first computers, which Hitler used to create simplified databases - and the 'enigma' coding machine made it quite difficult for allies to forcast what plans the Nazi 'Axis' alliance had.
I have repeatedly written in many letters and accounts that Hitler would be 'turning in his grave' if he could have access to this kind of information technology we have today - and THAT TECHNOLOGY IS PRESENTLY USED FOR PROPAGANDA AGAINST THE US ( - let us be fair ! ) and opportunistic enemies of humanity as terrorists and tyrants have already reached epics of software development and have bought satellite services and at this very moment still dream of abusing satellite surveillance images for the sake of gaining control - and the worst blackmail of its kind is 'oil supply' in addition to al other forms of proxy warfare etc etc
What we can be comforted with is that there are many of those good people all around the world who have grown to understand the plight of Americans, specially when they see what oil price blackmail can do to their lives and livelihood !! We must needs encourage all good forces, without being naïve and too believing - as the US economy cannot function without trade - and yet US domestic needs must be protected from scornful preditor interests.
Many Google articles have been 'outdated' and archives lost - as people buying shares try to control the board of directors' decisions.
Standards of Corporate resonsibility in information protection and historical archiving must needs be reviewed and protected. However, we must hurry and ask help from Intelligence experts to dig up reliable archives and restitute those people who have suffered in silence - for that is the pathway of progress ( - NOT prepaid populism and propaganda with confused rhetorics )
The horror accounts about certain perverted medical 'professionals' is a 'tiny detail' in comparison to how tyrannies raped and murdered people systematically in prisons in both Iran and Iraq. People would simply 'disappear' .
You can read about accounts of babies kept in refrigerators in Iraq. Many of those doctors may have 'dropped off' and many may have died since those baby blood transfusions and blood product applications since the mid 1980s !! 20 years ago !!!!! And yet, I have heard reports about this being done in Iraq under Saddam.
Another chilling account is made available thanks to certain Japanese interest to keep old information accessible on the Internet.
You can read about INNUMERABLE Iraqi babies found kept in refrigerators in Iraq - it is reported , LONG before the oil for food & medicine program (( which BTW I had proposed in a fax to Hon President Clinton )). Here is the JapanToday URL on that part : http://archive.japantoday.com/jp/news/267199/all Doctors testified that there were baby bodies refrigerated even BEFORE the sanctions - and that they used them in media stunts to blame the US sanctions ....
However, the main theme and angle I testified about was the issue of terrorists using Sudan ad a training camp ALREADY in the 1990s !! - and the air attack on positions there under President Clinton are also well known !!
That very single point is was a historical chronology I felt I could help elucidating from my very personal experience.
IMAGINE how the US economy would have fared under further blackmail from Saddam Hussein if he were there today !!!!! What retaliation and proxy wars he had schemed !! Sooner or later, what would have happened, as he continued his sick idea of 'mother of all battles' vowing to conquer Jerusalem as his pseudo-neo-Babylonistic ideological delusion !?!!? Where would human dignity and rights be then ?? He would have force sponsored a media lobby court to force the USA to worship HIS ideals of pseudoBabylonsim and state that HIS version of a 'glorious Babylon' was right, and continue his arm twisting on all archeologists forced with oil finances !!
Meanwhile the endangered kidn hearted minorities in Iran and Iraq and their original heritage peoples the regions would have been even worse off !! - and cruelty extermination of those endangered minorities and peoples would have repercussions on all of Humanity, exactly in the same way as Nazism had intended in since after the depression of the 1930s . We MUST WORK TOGETHER TO AVERT THAT !! FROM NOW ( or procrastination can lead to even more unimaginable sufferings and injustices, and lies !! )
Therefore, JUST ONE POINT may need much more explanation - as the public see only the 'tip of the iceberg ' - and I felt that it would be very unjust to accuse White House Press Secretary Tony Snow of any failure of duty or dishonesty . We need to understand those core issues first before judging persons that entered public service well over a decade later after those events !!
BTW even the New Yorker sticks to satire - not anywhere near the caricatures attacking the Prophet Muhammed, that really struck an upset chord among millions - 'freedom or not' . I respect moderate muslims who cannot be blanket judged ( - neither must any people be complacent about cruel prejudice against the USA !! ) - and find it a very inflaming issue even extremists tried to take adantage of !!
The Obama caricature may be very distasteful and unpleasant for many - but those who choose can take it as satire and just laugh it off - but satiric motives and intentions may need explaining , as others may want more clarifications as to whether there is a critic on relevant themes as can be seen on the New Yorker today generally on 'flip flopping' escapism from harsh realities, and as 'sugar coated promises' -
(( Non-political people have rights too, to understand and to choose !! )) See the URL at :
( copy , paste and read )
Back to the point, I deeply appreciate Foxnews tribute blogs that are rightfully well deserved, in my humble view, as Press Secretary Tony Snow was very hard working, and kept a sense of humor even in most difficult times.
Kindest wishes and blessings to all good people with kind layer of mind and wish for positive dialogue .
I remain, a 'neutral' bird's eye testimony above all party political interests,
( please excuse swift improvisation spelling errors )
On URL info 'disappearing' on Japan Today's News website archive Posted by P. Shahir on 2008-07-15 00:45:46
( PS on links and example of constantly threatened archives flooded by slices of share interests etc - crucial historical information pushed out )
The simple search was done , not many hours ago, on a simple search on Google using for example the following key words :
Saddam Hussein + Iraq + blood products + refrigerated babies + doctors + Japan Times
2 top results pointed to 2 URLs :
and at http://archive.japantoday.com/jp/news/267199/all
At the very least, one of the URLs had the article some hours ago, which I thoroughly investigated.
Two URLs showed on Google resulted in sample information with the following text :
Doctors said they were forced to refrigerate dead babies in hospital ...
The posting from around the year 2003 or 2004 was a personal testimony of an Iraqi doctor who stated that his life and that of his entire family could be in danger, because of that information.
He stated that the refrigeration of babies was not 'just' due to the oil for food sanctions, as the Iraqi regime had claimed.
Earlier on, this was taking place - but when the sanctions took place, they just began wheeling the bodies out into public and showed them off to journalists.
They had ordered the parents to do their part in crying and mourning in front of the cameras, so that all blame could be placed in the US sanctions, while all money was covertly funneled to other schmemes directed by the Saddam elite.
( swift account by memory from hours ago, from a website statement by an Iraqi doctor - myseriously disappeared - perhaps overwhelmed by inquiries )
The alarming information was that the Iraqi doctors had been forced to have that routine of keeping babies in refrigerators long before the media stunts. The doctor feared for his life and that of his family.
This is just one tiny example of macabre methods - and parents would just about do anything 'in national interest' in order to survive and be promised a better treatment, were they one day in need of medical attention.
Typical despotic tyrannical regime blackmail conditions - In Iran, moral religious blackmail and fear for one's survival is a 'normalcy' and accepted consequence , as people are brainwashed that it is the 'religious authority' that has 'proven' itself - as the holders of power can play 'God' and claim to power as if they ( Ayato'llah's AND other dictators )would have liked to be considered as 'kings' - yet of no royal lineage, quality, magnanimity or conscience whatsoever .....
Posted by Pile on 2008-07-17 10:47:26
Why can't I have some non-crazy users of the site?
Seriously. I work hard trying to find good news and information; I do podcasts and try to be entertaining. I spend a lot of time working on this site.
And this is what I get? Weird nut jobs rambling about Clinton, Saddam Hussein and dead babies in refrigerators?
More evidence there is no god.
Rightful defense of Mr Tony Snow & Re:Clinton on OBL/Sudan 1990s Posted by P. Shahir on 2008-07-17 18:28:12
@ Pile -
( btw Peoples existential ultimate realization of a dialectics between their powerlessness and obvious defined existence of the Almighty, is a matter of respect and issue for each individual. An Almighty surpassing all can, by definition, never be limited to the pockets of (, or imperical extortion measures of ), ANY despotic clerical fanatic abusing people's trust, or the denials of ultimate fate, through any number of injunctures )
Needless to remind you that you started this forum threat with an extreme and litterally demonising title line.
There were very upset feelings from a public member who went as far as coming with death threats - ALSO against the law inany country.
I wish to correct a typing error: Regarding to the fast accelerating dangers of terrorism, had contacted the White House prior to meeting members of the US airmen based in Germany took place towards and in August 1998 and not 1989 ( excuse typing error )
THIS was the core issue, as it was not just the matter of 'WHICH' terror lead to persue. There was a general lack of attention on the horrific escalation in danger - not only to the USA, but to the entire world, as Saddam was from as a figure from a dungeon of horror.
Again, it is good you understood the point that the medical abuse of babies for very cynical so called 'medical' procedures, was only the least part of the horrors, as all civilized people know what it means to use biological poisons against ANY member of civilian population - let alone the MANY towns that were obliterated in Northern Iraq, predominantly the original people of the region.
These horrors took place also WELL BEFORE the publicly uncovered massacre in Halabcha using a cocktail of poison gases.
The main issue here is that I felt morally obligated to raise awareness to the escalation between ultranationalist hate crime lobbies, who LOVED to demonize even the most peaceful of refugees, calling them all 'immigrants' even when they had been persecuted. This in turn helped the jihadist islamists recruit even more people, and the cycle went on .....
When you mentioned points about President Clinton, and his dealings with terrorism and jihadists since the 1993 WTC heinous attack in New York, it is crucial to be fair and impartial, and not allow partisan extremist mudslinging, even as I spoke with US representation during President Clinton's administration, requesting a message to Speaker of the House Honorable MR Newt Gindrich, to help 'tone down' the cruel atmosphere against the President - which he did ( - whether he had heard me or not ).
I respectfully remind you at it is YOUR article that had mentioned surrounding Hon. Pres. Clinton's decisions in the 1990s vis a vis OBL activities in Sudan etc, and what 'certain people had said' ....
( PS btw, re: oil prices, on PalTalk I had ALSO stated, many years ago, that oil could easily rise over $300 - and even could hit the $500 mark. ( recently after I wrote this Hugo Chavez of Venezuela stated that it could rise above $300 with a threat undertone - We must ALL wake up and unite against such threats - before far too late !!!!! - Therefore, It would have been helpful too, if members of your lobby, from any flank of the Democratic party, could along and decried the extreme tone - one would only use when strongly upset about Saddam's high crimes of cultivating Jihadi activities ( as among 'willing' Iranian POWs as 'alternative activity') Saddam went on to call for 'Jihad to conquer Jerusalem' , calling it ' the mother of all battles ' - a term he also used when racheting and threatening attack against US and allies, if they did not let him get his way in taking over oilfields, and subsequently blackmailing the entire world !!
Essentially, I go for a decent, fair, impartial and friendly tone of reasoning and view exchange.
Following my efforts to raise awareness on the escalation of extremism, ultranationalism and abusive oil cartels linked to condoning and supporting jihadi terrorists, I experienced that horrific personal tragedy of my mother being killed, as she was not properly protected.
Here, while explaining my most horrific personal tragedy, as victim of terror and intimidation, the very best I can do is being honest and urging people towards a more positive dialogue.
On this board, everyone knows that there were a number of other postings, one of which was very angry with death threats against you - and while understanding his feeling of insult, I condemn any such threat (website colleague of yours apparently posted his IP address here, but very often people use other IPs to mask their address - and it MIGHT even be someone living closer to your own area ... who knows...)
You removed those postings, and my postings were left to stand alone .... with some reactions from you, which you also re-edited, as you may, as moderator ( ? or co-moderator ).
However, while having appreciated your removing the demonising remark in the title line, I still feel that it is also up to Press Secretary Mr Tony Snow's friends to demand further indemnity if they wish - something I could do too, since according to Internet ethics, the duty of a moderator is to protect posters from harassment, and not further unkindness to a poster, with rightful cause to request an ethical humane tone of discussion.
While you wish to statuate 'freedom of speech' I personally would not like to hurt anyone's feelings - for while one should treat others in the way one would like to treat one's self, it is not a matter of leaving things to street parliamentarism.
Some like to provoke as last resort to draw attention - but , in my view, that is a wrong way of capitalizing on peoples' feelings. One should raise issues with a just cause, and be allowed to reply when one can.
I initially wrote a posting on this website at http://bsalert.com/news/2070/Know_Your_Food_Coloring.html , as I felt that I should share my little knowledge about health and biochemistry to forewarn and encourage. Inever know what BSalert meant !!?! I thought I had found someone who know something in biochemistry of foods I could discuss with ( sorry about that .... However I appreciate any effort to raise public awareness in truth. - and I then reacted naturally to other postings, some somewhat rather extreme )
I could understand your upset that there are not enough postings here - but an idea could be to be more positive and humoristic. Perhaps I could suggest even a humorist change of face, calling this 'fertilizeralert' ( but now that ismy Intellectual pruduct - and will only allow my ideas and inspiration to be used to encourage people in crisis and personal tragedy, and not insult them calling names ) .
If someone abuses the website ( even your own co-hosters or co-moderators ) , then, by law, you have the responsibility to report it, specially to protect posters from harassments and intimidation !
This is Internet code of ethics - so if the website were to improve and still be there tomorrow, I for one would encourage a kind layer of mind and fairness - and therefore felt a moral duty to speak for those who are no longer presently here amongst us to speak for themselves. However, I feel encouraged that you could like to stand as a man of positived dialogue, and in these fleeting moments, while Internet is quandered, while people in Darfur are dying in the thousands from chronic disease, neglect and inustice, I try my utmost to do right here and now, and wish to cite the Very Honorable US President ( of all Americans - right to the end of his term of office ) for comforting the public, family, friends of Press Secretary Tony Snow, at the White House site, URL http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2008/07/20080717-1.html ( just copy and paste into browser address line )
As regards to any crimes you may feel have been committed in various offices, I suggest you contact the FBI who have the highest norms and values in defending human rights across all party politics and walks of life. That goes for any corporate or white collar crimes you may have noticed or could document.
I deeply appreciate a new line of action statuated by President Bush on condemning corporate crimes as example of Enron and the cruelty that occured disenfranchising and robbing the consumers and the life savings of hard working American worker.
It was the USA ( and good people everywhere ) that was attacked in 1993, and again on 9/11 2001.
I deeply appreciate all who joined hands in face of the heinous horrors against Humanity, and struggled in public service, doing all the can, either as Press Secretary of the President, or as simple security guards or police officers in DC or in LA, who struggle to raise enough to feed a family and also to serve security and wellbeing in USA.
On the 100the Aniversary and on this Special Day declared as proclaimed as ' FBI Day ' , I wish to raise profound gratitude to the FBI and other related security forces and guards, who have risked their lives in service of public serive and struggle against all forms of crime.
The FBI is renouned for great services throughout the world towards security and fighting crime, (and this goes too for the British Scotland Yard as well as some other devoted Police teams in Europe )
FBI have special Internet sections that work on cybercrimes, and I think all websites should work closely with that Highly Esteemed Office of Service to All Americans and All good people everywhere.
Here is the 100th Year Anniversary Birthday of FBI and website on this special FBI Day occasion.
Happy birthday & FBI Day to all of FBI !!!!!!!!!
For now, I thank you for your attention and interest and wish your website the progress and changes that could make your team and families happy and rewarded - through progressive thinking and positive dialogue.
Wishing joyful progressive thoughts and ever advancing hearts, minds and souls for all good people of consceince and progress. Best wishes & blessings to all from P. Shahir
PS thanking search engine experts re: Saddam's Horrors Posted by P. Shahir on 2008-07-17 18:43:12
PS I would like to thank various search engine experts, including Google, Yahoo, MSN and many other independent Internet advocates, that may have helped to improve the Internet and make search results available, and many other older archives seemed to be become available.
There are still some older sites that may have collapsed or lost their ability to host or to pay bills etc etc etc - and for those pieces of information, I could appeal to all to enter into a neutral sphere of positive respectful cooperation so that all archives AND search engines be devoted to preserving such historical documents and ensuring that nothing can be manipulated.
Now we all have th serious challange of protecting peoples Identities and works from ruthless envy, theft and even threat to security physical survival !!
Historical analysts and critical Intelligence contributors must needs work together, so that misunderstandings be overcome, people be honored & appreciated for their struggles, and victims of cyber-intimidation be exhonorated, and good works be statuated and encouraged.
Happy FBI Day to all !
Huh? Posted by Confused on 2008-07-18 22:47:10
I thought this was about Tony Snow...
@Shahir, does this really long thing end in a dead baby joke, 'cause we've already heard them all.
Press Secretary T.S. had both right & duty to defend just cause Posted by P. Shahir on 2008-07-20 18:41:23
Regarding the above & now 13th post :
Again, I had replied that 'refrigerated babies' and horror experimental abuse of baby blood products, was a 'ridiculously' little aspect, - in comparison to the use of poison gas to drive out and eliminate original peoples of Iraq, - long before the hard video documented Halabcha massacre of 1988 !! Doctors who ever tried to report could simply disappear !
A public mislead about Saddam's horrors, is only a tiny aspect of a globalized media jungle the Press Secretary had to deal with !!!!
I applaud good people across all party politics, who grown to understood what this Saddam horror was getting up to. Fierce pro-Saddam propaganda, and blocking of relevant search engine historical records temporarily caused confusion for people with short memories and subject to biased misinformation. Many had paranoid suspicions that Saddam's massacre using poison gases was ' just a propaganda stunt ' This is a 'little' example of the kind of harsh media lobbyist propaganda Mr Tony Snow had to deal among many other msiled lobbyist media propaganda problems - as many had thought , in the 1990s, that Saddam was 'still good to do business with' - so cynical and masses rendered ignorant by prepaid propaganda.
DESPITE certain cartel interests' financing of hate propaganda and wholesale personality assassination efforts ( as last resort for tyrants and corrupt interests ) , the memory of Press Secretary Mr Tony Snow has been revered in well over 100,000 Internet addresses ( according to Google) !!, - many of which have hundreds of condolences and tributes each, to Tony Snow and grief stricken family.
This addes up to millions of tributes from people who have listened to and appreciated Mr Tony Snow's carismatic personality !
People have also the right to raise issues about many cruel misunderstandings and misleadings !
Possibly things that Mr Tony Snow did not achieve while alive among us, seem to be gradually acheived through mysterious ways.
It is not the matter of what-so-and-so-said and who-was-upset etc - but a matter of dealing with humongous cruelties in the world, false propaganda, and the urgent need of a straight and candid Press Secretary who could deal with such pressures !
Well done Mr Tony Snow ! - and heartfelt sympathies to family, friends and colleagues !
sincerely, P. Shahir
PS appreciating partners towards world free of tyranny & terror Posted by P. Shahir on 2008-07-20 19:02:49
This said, even though African Union hosted outside Africa, I wish to express profound appreciation as regards to the efforts of the Egyptian President Mubarak to help bring people together - , constructive dialogue with the US President, and the friendship of Egyptians growing towards USA.
Working partners who want to see peace in the region, know the value of a President who honestly stands up for his convictions - no matter what cruel mudslingings may have taken place about 'peoples great grandfathers', ALL present day living leaders have the right to struggle and statuate that there is no place for cruel repression and tyrannic support to terror cartels ....
Oops -this PS was meant in reply to criticism on President Bush Posted by P. Shahir on 2008-07-20 19:51:06
( was meant for the other thread ) - but still related to one of Press Secretary Tony Snow's many PR achievements in helping advance partnerships against terror and tyranny in the world. - TY Tony Snow !
Posted by TheSimulacra on 2008-07-22 08:51:57
Pile - I love your BSAlerts! I know you don't want to tread on this guy's free speech rights, but honestly he is clearly mentally imbalanced, and his incredibly long diatribes fail at any semblance of coherence. He's essentially spamming your forum and if it continues you really should just block him. He's making it more difficult for others to use the forums because he's completely monopolizing the space.
Hey PILE, "Birds of a feather. . ." Posted by guyfroml on 2008-07-23 20:00:13
Hey PILE, you stated earlier, "...This isn't about negativity and hatred. This is about whether or not a professional liar is to be remembered as something more than he was."
Well, from the sound of it, the way you talk and think, it appears when the day come for you to leave this world, you and Tony are going to be roommates...he's waiting for you!
Posted by TheSimulacra on 2008-07-23 22:26:30
Ha! Come on "guyfroml"... is there really anything more hateful than condemning someone else to hell? Grow up. Tony Snow was complicit in selling this war, bankrupting the American people, exploiting the public's faith in both government and the media... the list goes on and on. We should all reserve our tears for people who die who actually led GOOD lives.
vmhxsuwp Posted by hueabstoxu on 2011-11-26 18:11:40
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